In Jeremiah 4:26, the origin of the destruction is from God. In Isaiah 2:10: 2:19; and 2:21
the Septuagint, a Greek version of the Old Testament made in third century BC, has the 288
same Greek words ["from the presence of the Lord"] used by Peter in Acts 3:19 where it is used as proceeding from the Lord.
"And fire came out FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and consumed them, than they died before the Lord" [Leviticus 10:2]
"Fire also came forth FROM THE LORD and consumed the two hundred and fifty men" [Numbers 16:35]
"We would see a sign FROM [apo] you" Matthew 12:38
"So there may come seasons of refreshing FROM [apo] THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD" [Acts 3:19]
"Everlasting destruction FROM [apo] THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and from the glory of His power" [2
Thessalonians 1:9 New King James Version]
A second view) the destruction is to be sent away from the presence of the Lord.
Unconditional immoralists add "away" from the presence of the Lord. They want this destruction to be only being sent away from the presence of God, as if there were such a place, to be banished to some place where God is not there. To be away from the presence of God is to be nowhere at all. Not to be; to have no existence at all anywhere.
To be alive anywhere is to be where God is [Psalms 139:7-9]; and with God sustaining the life they have, for there can be no life that is not sustained by God. There cannot be a place where there is life away from the presence of God. Today's theology denies the omnipresence of God by saying there is a place where God is not present, then says mankind can forever live there without God being there to sustain their life. The destruction comes from God. It is "destruction from the presence of the Lord," not "being sent away from the presence of the Lord" to live forever with out God with out destruction.
Both Acts 3:19 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 have the identical words, “from (apo) the presence of the Lord.” A sign, many things, destruction, and seasons of refreshing are all things that came from God, not things that were sent away from God and will exist forever away from His presence. Apo is used many times in the New Testament and never means away.
―We would see a sign FROM (apo) you‖ [Matthew 12:38]. A sign that came FROM (apo) Christ, not a sign that was ―forever away FROM the presence of Christ.‖
―FROM (apo) the presence of the Lord‖ [Acts 3:19]
― FROM (apo) the presence of the Lord‖ [2 Thessalonians 1:9]
―And suffer many things FROM (apo) the elders‖ [Matthew 16:21 New American Standard]. Christ suffered many things FROM (apo) the elders, not many things that were ―forever away FROM the elders.‖
―So all the generations FROM (apo) Abraham unto David are fourteen generations [Matthew 1:17]
―He is risen FROM (apo) the dead‖ [Matthew 14:2]
Two passages that are used to prove torment in Hell, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 14:10-11. Where is Hell? 2 Thessalonians 1:9 used to prove Hell is away from the presence of God and that death, the wages of sin is separation from God, but not a real death. Yet, when Revelation 14:10-11 is made literal to prove Hell, when this torment is made be literal torment, it make this torment to be in Heaven in the presence of the Lord, not in Hell away from the presence of the Lord .
1. "In the presence of the Lord."
2. Or away (which is added) "from the presence of the Lord"
Those who believe in Hell use both to prove Hell; both "from" and "in" the presence of the Lord are where the torment of Hell will be, they clearly contradict themselves. Is Hell in Christ's presence or away from His presence? They say death is separation from God. They have it both ways with the dead both separated from God and at the same time in the presence of God.
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Robert Peterson commenting of 2 Thessalonians 1:9 in "Hell on Trial" said:
Peterson: A person exists but remains excluded from God's good presence.
Paul "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord."
Peterson changed "everlasting destruction" to "everlasting exists." The English or the Greek word does not mean to exist. Nothing can exist and be destroyed at the same time; from what dictionary does Peterson find destruction to mean exists.
Anything that exists has not been destroyed.
Anything that has been destroyed does not exist.
Destruction has been changed to exist in some faraway place where God does not exist. Who made this place? Did God make it and then abandoned it to exist on it own just as those sent there must exist on their own and sustain their own life without the help of God who is not there? Where is the revelation from which anyone could know destruction means to exist away from God and without God? They know that if destruction is destruction, then those who are destroyed do not exist any longer, therefore, they must change the word God used to exist. They must say to God, "Not so God, even despite the fact that You said they will be destroyed, no one can be destroyed." This is an example of how far Peterson and all who believe this heathen teaching are willing to go to save their theology. Being permanently apart from God makes life impossible. It makes to exist in any way impossible. How can anyone who says he or she ―speaks where the Bible speaks and is silent where the Bible is silent‖ change “everlasting destruction” into ―everlasting torment‖ and still say they do not change God‘s word when even a child can see they have changed it? God is made to be like a man that sets out to destroy a house by tearing it down, but works on it all his lifetime, and not one part of the house is destroyed. They have God spending eternity destroying a soul but never will destroy any part of that soul. "Destroy" and "torment" are different things and cannot be made to be the same thing. "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. When they (those of the world) are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction (olethros) comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that
day should overtake you as a thief" [1 Thessalonians 5:2-4]. The sudden destruction, which "they shall in no wise escape" is on "the day of the Lord," "that day" not eternal existing in torment after "the day of the Lord." Also 1 Timothy 6:9; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5.
Roger E. Dickson said, "2 Thessalonians 1:9 should thus be translated that 'these shall be punished with destruction that has unending result.' The word 'destruction' means something is terminated, that the action of destruction would not continuously go on forever and ever...The result of the destruction would continue forever. In other words, those destroyed would not come back into existence. Taken literally, they are destroyed" "Life, Death and Beyond" Biblical Research Library, Volume 11, 1998, Page 160.
[5] Phthiro is used 8 times and is translated [1] Destroy 2 times, [2] Corrupt 4 times,
[3] Corruption 2 times. "If any man destroys (phthiro) the temple of God, God will destroy (phthiro) him" 1 Corinthians 3:17 New American Standard Version. Against all rules of interpretation, the same word is used in the same sentence with two completely different meanings; this same word is changed to be, "If any man destroys the temple of God, God will torment him." Why such inconsistency? Do those who have their own theory change the Bible to keep their theology?
[6] Phthora is used 9 times and is translated [1] Corruption 7 times, [2] Perish 1 time,
[3] Destroyed 1 time.
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"All which things are to PERISH (phthiro) with the using" [Colossians 2:22 American Standard Version].
Things are not going to be tormented, but will come to an end. Yet, when the same word is used in reference to a person, some say, "Not so, a person cannot perish; and not even God can destroy him, for a person is eternal and therefore cannot be destroyed."
"Beast, made to be taken and DESTROYED (phthiro)" [2 Peter 2:12] King James Version].
"Shall UTTERLY PERISH (kataphileo) in their own CORRUPTION (phthiro)" [2 Peter 2:12] King James Version. " DESTROYED" New American Standard Version.
"But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and KILLED, (phthiro) reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the DESTRUCTION (kataphileo) of these creatures also be
DESTROYED (phthiro)" New American Standard Version. This is changed to say animals will be killed (phthiro), but men will be tormented (phthiro). When this passage is changed, the same word must be given two different interpretations in the same sentence to keep animals from having souls.
[7] Kataphileo is used 2 times and is translated Utterly perish 1 time in 2 Peter 2:12, Corrupt 1 time in 2 Timothy 3:8.
"But these [men] as natural brute beast made to be taken and destroyed...SHALL UTTERLY PERISH
(kataphileo) in their own CORRUPTION (phthiro)" King James Version. Both evil men and beast shall utterly perish.
"But these (men), as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and DESTROYED
(kataphileo)...shall in their [men] destroying surely be DESTROYED (phthiro)." [At end of world]. American Standard Version.
"But these (men), like unreasoning animals, born as creatures...to be captured and killed...will in the
DESTRUCTION (kataphileo) of these creatures also be DESTROYED [phthiro]" New American Standard Version.
"These people, however, are like irrational animals...born to be caught and KILLED (phthiro) and when these creatures are DESTROYED (kataphileo), they [men] also will be DESTROYED (phthiro) " New Revised Standard Version.
"They, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and are like brute beast, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and DESTROYED (kataphileo) and like beasts they [men] too will PERISH (phthiro)." New International Version.
"These [men] (like unreasoning wild animals born to be captured and DESTROYED (phthiro), ranting in their ignorance) will also be DESTROYED in their destroying." Hugo McCord, New Testament Translation, Printed by Freed-Hardeman College.
―Animals...destruction...[men] shall be UTTERLY DESTROYED (kataphileo)‖ Living Oracles, A Campbell, Gospel Advocate Co.
"Truth Commentaries" on 2 Peter 2:12 changes what Peter said about the same thing shall happen to these men that happened to the beast, and tried to side step by saying they only act as if they are of the same nature. Nothing is said about a person and beast having the same nature, he added that, but Peter said that they both will have the same end, both will "be destroyed" American Standard Version. The writer could not get around this so he changed what Peter said from both beast and corrupt men having the same end, to both having the same nature; and then he said they do not even have the same nature, but only act as if they do? The same end is not the same thing as "same nature." From where did he get same nature? Is he not a county mile from what Peter did say? Does he think only the "nature" of a person or beast is to be destroyed (phthora), but only one will be alive after their nature is destroyed [Psalms 49:20]?
[8] Exolothreuo is used only one time. "And it shall be, that every soul [psukee] that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people"
[Acts 3:23]. It is the "psukee" [soul, living being, person] that shall be "utterly destroyed." If this were speaking of immaterial no substance part of a person the very thing many say is immortal from birth and cannot be destroyed is "utterly destroyed." In Acts 3:22-23 Peter is speaking of anyone who will not hear Christ shall be "utterly 291
destroyed," not forever preserved alive. Not only shall they that do not hearken to Christ be destroyed, they are to be “utterly destroyed.”
"Exolothreuo is found in this one passage. This is the strongest word in Greek for the action of God towards man in his evil. There is not a shade of modification from the idea or absolute eradication. The word means clearly 'the wiping out of existence.' Even the translators used an adjective, 'utterly' to convey the idea of eradication. It clearly refers to all those who reject Christ as being eradicated." G. A. Adams, "The Judgment,"
Page 25.
When the strongest words in the Greek language that signify destroy or destruction are made to mean an everlasting existence in torment; there cannot be a grosser misinterpretation of language.
[9] Katargeo is used 27 times. Translated [1] Abolished, [2] Vanish away, [3] Bring to naught (nothing), [4] Do away with, [5] Destroy [6] Destroyed, [7] Be done away, [8]
Ceased, [9] etc.
Death "SHALL BE ABOLISHED (katargeo)" [1 Corinthians 15:26]. No one thinks death will exist forever in torment. If a person were immortal, there would be no death to be abolished.
Knowledge "SHALL VANISH AWAY (katargeo)" [1 Corinthians 13:8]. Not be tormented.
"God SHALL BRING TO NAUGHT (katargeo) both it and THEM" [1 Corinthians 6:13]. GOD WILL BRING TO
NAUGHT [bring to nothing] BOTH THEIR BELLY AND THEM. "Do away with both" New American Standard Version. "Destroy both" New Revised Standard Version. Their belly will go back to the dust from which it came and cease to be just as they will. God will bring to nothing "both it (their belly ) and them."
"That through death he might BRING TO NAUGHT (katargeo) him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" [Hebrews 2:14], Satan is to be brought to nothing, not forever tormented. How? By being cast into the lake of fire [Revelation 20:10] "which is the second death " [Revelation 21:8]. God made Satan, man, and all that was made out of nothing and both Satan and all lost men will return to nothing.
"HAVING ABOLISHED (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments" [Ephesians 2:15]. No one thinks the law of commandments is being tormented forever. It was brought to naught (nothing), vanished away, was abolished just as Satan and all the lost will be. The same word is used for the end of death, knowledge, the belly, Satan, the Law of Moses, and the lost. Whatever happens to one happens to the others.
[10] Destroy like death, is used in a way it is not used in any English Dictionary, or is not used in everyday language by us or the world, but only by some in their special theological way. The English word "destroy" never means "torment." If the Greek word did, then "destroy" would be a very bad mistranslation. None of the Bible translations translate it "torment."
If, as many teach, destroy means banishment to Hell, then it means the same for all the creatures named in Genesis 7:21-23 where all mankind was destroyed along with all living beings not in the ark. "Destroyed" in King James Version, "blotted out" in the New American Standard. I know of no one who believes all living creatures will be in Hell.
[11] Apothneesko is used 110 times and is translated die, dying, died, dead, death, perished: Apothneesko always means die or dead. “Christ died (apothennsko) for us”
[Romans 5:8]. “For as in Adam all die (apothennsko)” [1 Corinthians 15:22] those in Christ and those not in Christ get old and die. “So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh: for if you live after the flesh, you shall die (apothennsko): but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live” [Romans 8:12-13]. Paul is speaking of a death (the second death) that only those who live after the flesh shall die but those who put to death the deeds of the body shall not die but shall live
[Revelation 2:11]. To die (apothennsko) never means to live, it never means to live forever in torment, “for if you live after the flesh, you shall die (apothennsko).” Only believers are promised eternal life; not one passage ever says nonbelievers will ever have eternal life in Hell or any other place, many passages say they will die.
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“For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies (apothennsko) for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die (apothennsko), we die (apothennsko) for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die (apothennsko), we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died (apothennsko) and lived again” [Romans 14:7-9]. Paul is speaking of our life now on earth, being alive or being dead, if we live to preach Christ or if we die, are put to death because we believe in Christ, to say die means being alive makes nonsense of this passage just as it does in all the passages where die (apothennsko) is used.
[12] The devouring, consuming, destroying fire Hebrews 10:27 : "But a certain terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire that will consume the adversaries" [New American Standard Version]. Some have made the wicked into a burning bush that is not consumed [Exodus 3:2], and have put out the consuming fire of God [Hebrews 12:29]. Therefore, God is no more a consuming fire. They use consume
by fire to mean to burn up [see 1 Kings 18:38; Leviticus 9:24; Deuteronomy 28:38], except when it is God consuming the evil, for then it would not fit with their teaching.
Therefore, they must use consume with two different meanings; consume means consume when it is a thing that has been burn up but consume mean eternal torment if it is a person. Consume has never meant torment, not if it is a thing that has been consumed by fire or if it is a person that has been consumed.
"Judgment and fiery indignation, which SHALL DEVOUR the adversaries" King James Version.
"Judgment, and fiery indignation which WILL DEVOUR the adversaries" New King James Version.
"Judgment, and a fierceness of fire which SHALL DEVOUR the adversaries" American Standard Version.
"Judgment and the fury of a fire which WILL CONSUME the adversaries" New American Standard Version.
"Judgment, and a fury of fire which WILL CONSUME the adversaries" Revised Standard Version.
"Judgment, and a fury of fire that WILL CONSUME the adversaries" New Revised Standard Version.
"Judgment and of raging fire that WILL CONSUME the enemies of God" New International Version.
"Judgment and a fierce fire which WILL CONSUME God's enemies" New English Bible.
" Judgment, of a fierce fire which WILL CONSUME God's enemies" Revised English Bible.
"Judgment and the fierce fire which WILL DESTROY those who oppose God" Today's English Version.
"Judgment and the fire of God's indignation, which WILL CONSUME all that sets itself against him" Phillips Modern English.
"Judgment and a flaming fire TO CONSUME the adversaries of God" New American Bible.
"Judgment, and of a fiery indignation, which SHALL DEVOUR the adversaries" Living Oracles, Campbell.
"Judgment and fierceness of fire which is READY TO CONSUME the enemies" McCord's New Testament Translation, Freed-Hardeman College.
The fury of fire is at the judgment and is a consuming, devouring, destroying fire, not an everlasting tormenting fire that cannot consume. There is a big difference. The adversaries of God will be judged and will be devoured, consumed, destroyed by the lake of fire, which is the second death, and will never be raised again. It is a death from which there will never be a resurrection.
The devouring, consuming, destroying fire
The chaff [Matthew 3:11-12]: Those who responded to Christ are the wheat. The chaff is the useless parts of the wheat, those who do not respond to Christ, are "burned up." Peter used the same words when he said the world and its works will be "burned up"
[2 Peter 3:10]. Neither the world nor the chaff will be tormented forever.
Weeds, tares, and bad fish [Matthew 13:30-50]: Both the wheat and the tares (the children of the devil) exist together in the world, but at the judgment, God will burn the tares and save the wheat. In the parables, both the tares and bad fish represent people.
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Dry branches [John 15:1-10]: Jesus is the vine. Any branches that do not bear fruit are cut off. The dry dead branches are cast into the fire and burnt up. When dead lifeless branches are burnt up, the branches do not exist, there is nothing left but ashes. "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" [John 15:6]. A man that does not abide in Christ is burned and ashes are not immortal souls in eternal torment. Unless someone can find a way to torment ashes this teaching of Christ makes eternal torment impossible.
HOW FIRE IS USED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
TO CONSUME NEVER TO TORMENT
"Then fire came out from before the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the positions of fat on the altar...And fire came out from the presence of the Lord and
consumed them, and they died before the Lord" [Leviticus 9:24-10:2].
"Fire also came forth from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense" [Numbers 16:35].
"So I will send fire upon the wall of Gaza, and it will consume her citadels" [Amos 1:7]. "And it will consume her citadels" [Amos 1:14].
"But I will send a fire on its cities that it may consume its palatial dwellings" [Hoses 9:14].
"And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty. „ If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.' Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty" [2 kings 1:10].
"But a certain terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire that will
consumed the adversaries" [Hebrews 10:27].
Hebrews 10:29: On the Judgment Day, when all the saved and the lost will most likely be able to see what Heaven will be like, and the lost to know that they are going to die; and know there will not be another resurrection, that they have forever missed being in Heaven, it will be a death very much sorer than physical death. It is not said that the
"sorer punishment" is to be tormented forever; but some read this into it, and teach it as if it is a Bible truth; and that everlasting torment in Hell is the only "sorer punishment" that is possible. To die forever after the judgment is a much sorer punishment than to die only unto the resurrection and judgment when they will be raised from the dead.
When we die, that death is not endles