The Gorgias by Plato. - HTML preview

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Platos Gorgias

POLUS: Certainly.

a little; did you sayin an unjust attempt to make himself a tyrant?

SOCRATES: And I affirm that he is most miserable, and that those who are punished are less miserableare you POLUS: Yes, I did.

going to refute this proposition also?

SOCRATES: Then I say that neither of them will be hap-POLUS: A proposition which is harder of refutation than pier than the other, neither he who unjustly acquires a the other, Socrates.

tyranny, nor he who suffers in the attempt, for of two miserables one cannot be the happier, but that he who es-SOCRATES: Say rather, Polus, impossible; for who can capes and becomes a tyrant is the more miserable of the refute the truth?

two. Do you laugh, Polus? Well, this is a new kind of refutation,when any one says anything, instead of refuting him POLUS: What do you mean? If a man is detected in an to laugh at him.

unjust attempt to make himself a tyrant, and when detected is racked, mutilated, has his eyes burned out, and after hav-POLUS: But do you not think, Socrates, that you have been ing had all sorts of great injuries inflicted on him, and hav-sufficiently refuted, when you say that which no human being ing seen his wife and children suffer the like, is at last im-will allow? Ask the company.

paled or tarred and burned alive, will he be happier than if he escape and become a tyrant, and continue all through SOCRATES: O Polus, I am not a public man, and only life doing what he likes and holding the reins of govern-last year, when my tribe were serving as Prytanes, and it ment, the envy and admiration both of citizens and strang-became my duty as their president to take the votes, there ers? Is that the paradox which, as you say, cannot be rewas a laugh at me, because I was unable to take them. And futed?

as I failed then, you must not ask me to count the suffrages of the company now; but if, as I was saying, you have no SOCRATES: There again, noble Polus, you are raising better argument than numbers, let me have a turn, and do hobgoblins instead of refuting me; just now you were call-you make trial of the sort of proof which, as I think, is re-ing witnesses against me. But please to refresh my memory quired; for I shall produce one witness only of the truth of 90

Platos Gorgias

my words, and he is the person with whom I am arguing; SOCRATES: And which is the greater disgrace?Answer.

his suffrage I know how to take; but with the many I have nothing to do, and do not even address myself to them.

POLUS: To do.

May I ask then whether you will answer in turn and have your words put to the proof? For I certainly think that I SOCRATES: And the greater disgrace is the greater evil?

and you and every man do really believe, that to do is a greater evil than to suffer injustice: and not to be punished POLUS: Certainly not.

than to be punished.

SOCRATES: I understand you to say, if I am not mistaken, POLUS: And I should say neither I, nor any man: would that the honourable is not the same as the good, or the you yourself, for example, suffer rather than do injustice?

disgraceful as the evil?

SOCRATES: Yes, and you, too; I or any man would.

POLUS: Certainly not.

POLUS: Quite the reverse; neither you, nor I, nor any man.

SOCRATES: Let me ask a question of you: When you speak of beautiful things, such as bodies, colours, figures, SOCRATES: But will you answer?

sounds, institutions, do you not call them beautiful in reference to some standard: bodies, for example, are beautiful POLUS: To be sure, I will; for I am curious to hear what in proportion as they are useful, or as the sight of them you can have to say.

gives pleasure to the spectators; can you give any other account of personal beauty?

SOCRATES: Tell me, then, and you will know, and let us suppose that I am beginning at the beginning: which of the POLUS: I cannot.

two, Polus, in your opinion, is the worst?to do injustice or to suffer?

SOCRATES: And you would say of figures or colours generally that they were beautiful, either by reason of the plea-POLUS: I should say that suffering was worst.

sure which they give, or of their use, or of both?