The Gorgias by Plato. - HTML preview

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Platos Gorgias

POLUS: And that is what I do mean to say.

you, Polus, that rhetoricians and tyrants have the least possible power in states, as I was just now saying; for they do SOCRATES: Then, if so, I think that they have the least literally nothing which they will, but only what they think power of all the citizens.

best.

POLUS: What! are they not like tyrants? They kill and POLUS: And is not that a great power?

despoil and exile any one whom they please.

SOCRATES: Polus has already said the reverse.

SOCRATES: By the dog, Polus, I cannot make out at each deliverance of yours, whether you are giving an opinion of POLUS: Said the reverse! nay, that is what I assert.

your own, or asking a question of me.

SOCRATES: No, by the greatwhat do you call him?not POLUS: I am asking a question of you.

you, for you say that power is a good to him who has the power.

SOCRATES: Yes, my friend, but you ask two questions at once.

POLUS: I do.

POLUS: How two questions?

SOCRATES: And would you maintain that if a fool does what he thinks best, this is a good, and would you call this SOCRATES: Why, did you not say just now that the rheto-great power?

ricians are like tyrants, and that they kill and despoil or exile any one whom they please?

POLUS: I should not.

POLUS: I did.

SOCRATES: Then you must prove that the rhetorician is not a fool, and that rhetoric is an art and not a flatteryand SOCRATES: Well then, I say to you that here are two so you will have refuted me; but if you leave me unrefuted, questions in one, and I will answer both of them. And I tell why, the rhetoricians who do what they think best in states, 81

Platos Gorgias

and the tyrants, will have nothing upon which to congratu-SOCRATES: Aye.

late themselves, if as you say, power be indeed a good, admitting at the same time that what is done without sense is POLUS: That, Socrates, is monstrous and absurd.

an evil.

SOCRATES: Good words, good Polus, as I may say in POLUS: Yes; I admit that.

your own peculiar style; but if you have any questions to ask of me, either prove that I am in error or give the answer SOCRATES: How then can the rhetoricians or the tyrants yourself.

have great power in states, unless Polus can refute Socrates, and prove to him that they do as they will?

POLUS: Very well, I am willing to answer that I may know what you mean.

POLUS: This fellow

SOCRATES: Do men appear to you to will that which they SOCRATES: I say that they do not do as they will;now do, or to will that further end for the sake of which they do refute me.

a thing? when they take medicine, for example, at the bid-ding of a physician, do they will the drinking of the medi-POLUS: Why, have you not already said that they do as cine which is painful, or the health for the sake of which they think best?

they drink?

SOCRATES: And I say so still.

POLUS: Clearly, the health.

POLUS: Then surely they do as they will?

SOCRATES: And when men go on a voyage or engage in business, they do not will that which they are doing at the SOCRATES: I deny it.

time; for who would desire to take the risk of a voyage or the trouble of business?But they will, to have the wealth POLUS: But they do what they think best?

for the sake of which they go on a voyage.