“Lysis, or Friendship” - Plato In the meantime Menexenus came back and sat that is the reason why I want you to argue with down in his place by Lysis; and Lysis, in a childish him.
and affectionate manner, whispered privately in my That I may make a fool of myself?
ear, so that Menexenus should not hear: Do, No, indeed, he said; but I want you to put him Socrates, tell Menexenus what you have been tell-down.
ing me.
That is no easy matter, I replied; for he is a ter-Suppose that you tell him yourself, Lysis, I re-rible fellow—a pupil of Ctesippus. And there is plied; for I am sure that you were attending.
Ctesippus himself: do you see him?
Certainly, he replied.
Never mind, Socrates, you shall argue with him.
Try, then, to remember the words, and be as exact Well, I suppose that I must, I replied.
as you can in repeating them to him, and if you Hereupon Ctesippus complained that we were have forgotten anything, ask me again the next time talking in secret, and keeping the feast to ourselves.
that you see me.
I shall be happy, I said, to let you have a share.
I will be sure to do so, Socrates; but go on telling Here is Lysis, who does not understand something him something new, and let me hear, as long as I that I was saying, and wants me to ask Menexenus, am allowed to stay.
who, as he thinks, is likely to know.
I certainly cannot refuse, I said, since you ask me; And why do you not ask him? he said.
but then, as you know, Menexenus is very pugna-Very well, I said, I will; and do you, Menexenus, cious, and therefore you must come to the rescue if answer. But first I must tell you that I am one who he attempts to upset me.
from my childhood upward have set my heart upon Yes, indeed, he said; he is very pugnacious, and a certain thing. All people have their fancies; some 23
“Lysis, or Friendship” - Plato desire horses, and others dogs; and some are fond Do you mean, I said, that if only one of them of gold, and others of honour. Now, I have no vio-loves the other, they are mutual friends?
lent desire of any of these things; but I have a pas-Yes, he said; that is my meaning.
sion for friends; and I would rather have a good But what if the lover is not loved in return? which friend than the best cock or quail in the world: I is a very possible case.
would even go further, and say the best horse or Yes.
dog. Yea, by the dog of Egypt, I should greatly pre-Or is, perhaps, even hated? which is a fancy which fer a real friend to all the gold of Darius, or even to sometimes is entertained by lovers respecting their Darius himself: I am such a lover of friends as that.
beloved. Nothing can exceed their love; and yet they And when I see you and Lysis, at your early age, so imagine either that they are not loved in return, or easily possessed of this treasure, and so soon, he of that they are hated. Is not that true?
you, and you of him, I am amazed and delighted, Yes, he said, quite true.
seeing that I myself, although I am now advanced In that case, the one loves, and the other is loved?
in years, am so far from having made a similar acYes.
quisition, that I do not even know in what way a Then which is the friend of which? Is the lover friend is acquired. But I want to ask you a question the friend of the beloved, whether he be loved in about this, for you have experience: tell me then, return, or hated; or is the beloved the friend; or is when one loves another, is the lover or the beloved there no friendship at all on either side, unless they the friend; or may either be the friend?
both love one another?
Either may, I should think, be the friend of ei-There would seem to be none at all.
ther.
Then this notion is not in accordance with our 24
“Lysis, or Friendship” - Plato previous one. We were saying that both were friends, Then, Menexenus, the conclusion is, that what is if one only loved; but now, unless they both love, beloved, whether loving or hating, may be dear to neither is a friend.
the lover of it: for example, very young children, That appears to be true.
too young to love, or even hating their father or Then nothing which does not love in return is mother when they are punished by them, are never beloved by a lover?
dearer to them than at the time when they are be-I think not.
ing hated by them.
Then they are not lovers of horses, whom the I think that what you say is true.
horses do not love in return; nor lovers of quails, And, if so, not the lover, but the beloved, is the nor of dogs, nor of wine, nor of gymnastic exer-friend or dear one?
cises, who have no return of love; no, nor of wis-Yes.
dom, unless wisdom loves them in return. Or shall And the hated one, and not the hater, is the en-we say that they do love them, although they are emy?
not beloved by them; and that the poet was wrong Clearly.
who sings—
Then many men are loved by their enemies, and
‘Happy the man to whom his children are dear, hated by their friends, and are the friends of their and steeds having single hoofs, and dogs of chase, enemies, and the enemies of their friends. Yet how and the stranger of another land’?
absurd, my dear friend, or indeed impossible is this I do not think that he was wrong.
paradox of a man being an enemy to his friend or a You think that he is right?
friend to his enemy.
Yes.
I quite agree, Socrates, in what you say.